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Nolan's Pop Culture Review 2009!
   Assistant Editor / Co-Moderator:  Terence Nuzum.                 HOME           ARCHIVES
Established A.D. 2000, March 19. Now in our tenth calendar year!
Number 490  (Vol. 10, No. 33). This edition is for the week of August 10--16, 2009.

"District 9"
Hippiefest 2009
Summer Memories: Baseball Hall of Fame
DVD Review: Tokyo Gore Police
The Aughts Are Not Great .... .... .... .... .... .... .... h
Jfk Had It Right .... .... The Image .... The Lingo .... The Alternative? .... Why Are They Mad? .... .... f
Michael Vick Seen In Chicago, Ends Up In Philly .... Hmm, He Looked Like A Bowling Pin! .... Usa Vs. Mexico .... Its Tusker Time! .... .... .... .... i
Lions And Tigers And....cheese? Oh My! .... The Stewardess Is Flying The Plane! .... Passing On .... Good Thing He Didn't Call It The "dead And Buried" Tour .... .... .... .... .... My Favorite Films, Part 2... i

Everything Sucks Now? The Conclusion
The Passings of John Hughes and Les Paul
The Nina O's Birthday Wing-Ding
Paranormal Alert: The Gable Film, Part 1
Everything Sucks Now? The Conclusion
Readers Comments


Due to birthday shenanigans and my always quirky work schedule I was prevented on commenting on the passings of two entertainment industry giants until now.

Les Paul died yesterday at the age of 94. My god, what can I say about the breadth of impact this man had on the music industry? He and wife/musical partner Mary Ford crafted many hits in the '50s, most having a jazzy-pop flavor.

Always an inventor and tinkerer, Paul decided he wanted to accompany himself on his recordings, but at the time there was no convenient way to do that. So....he invented the multi-track tape recorder, an appliance still in use today. Further, he decided that electric guitars needed a redesign that more effectively transmitted the signal from string to pickup to amplifier. Enter the legendary model that would be picked up by the Gibson guitar company: the Gibson Les Paul. The first Pauls are highly sought-after collectibles, but more incredibly, the basic design of current models are unchanged after fifty years, AND are just as sought-after and valuable to own as ever! That's how ahead of his time Les Paul was.

A humble man with relatively simple needs, Les Paul continued to jam the rest of his life, most notably on Monday's at a local club he liked.

I could really recommend any of his catalog for review (I myself own some original "78s"), but have a particular fondness for Chester and Lester, where he shares the stage with fellow legend Chet Atkins (another genius who left us not too long ago).

Types like this come along once a century. Les Paul was living history and will be sorely missed.

John Hughes, the director of such coming-of-age seminal fare as Sixteen Candles, The Breakfast Club, and Ferris Bueller's Day Off passed away earlier this week at the age of 59.

Though I was not its target demographic even when these films were new, I was still moved by what Hughes had going on, the chemistry of the actors, and scripts everyone could indentify with. (I was not out of school all that long at the time, so much of the subjects covered felt familiar.) Though "coming-of-age" flicks are among my least favorite genres (down there with frat-boy movies), Hughes made it palatable with memorable characters and stories.

Though most 40-somethings seem to identify most with Ferris Bueller, I confess a particular fondness for The Breakfast Club. No particularly good reason outside of that all the young "rat pack" actors were at the peak of their game, and the whole screenplay gelled really well.

I know how much impact Hughes' work had on the career of filmmaker Keven Smith (Clerks, Chasing Amy, Dogma), but have yet to read anywhere what he had to say about Hughes' death.

Smith wasn't alone, of course. It could easily be said that John Hughes was one of the most influential filmmakers of the late 20th century. Please see last week's Mike's Rant for more on the career of John Hughes.


 Click on images to enlarge. A new browser window will open.
L-to-R: Paul Guzzo, Joel & Cathy Wynkoop.
L-to-R: Cathy Wynkoop, Lisa Scherer Ciurro, Chris Woods.
L-to-R: Dashingly-dressed Mason Troupe and girlfriend Jainie Tyler (no relation to PCR writer Bobby Tyler). Friend Andrew Calahan's hand is at right

 Click on images to enlarge. A new browser window will open.
There he is! I swing the camera around to get one of our newest Board contributors, Andrew Calahan (Major Major).
First attempt at a group shot, this one taken by our server. L-to-R: Andrew, Nolan Canova, Paul Guzzo, Joel & Cathy Wynkoop, Lisa Scherer Ciurro, Chris Woods. Mason & Jainie at right are missing.
Second attempt at a group shot taken by yours truly. L-to-R: Andrew, Paul Guzzo, Joel & Cathy Wynkoop, Lisa (obscured), Chris Woods, Mason Troupe and Jainie. Yours truly is missing 'cuz I'm the photog.
As most long-time fans know by now, most of the Tampa-based PCR staff get together on Sunday nights for supper at a local restaurant. For years, that was usually Hooters on Gandy, the last year or so, though, we found it more comfortable and quiet at Nina O's Grill & Bar on S. Dale Mabry. I always take pictures when the gathering is extra special for whatever reason.

Chris Woods had been in NY on vacation for two weeks and the rest of us took a hiatus on Sunday nights until his return. As it turned out, his return was also the last Sunday before August 13th, the 54th birthday of yours truly. So....I took some shots to mark the occasion of the "birthday" Nina O's!

I was particularly moved that Youth Nation members Mason Troupe and his friends Jainie and Andrew (sorry, can't recall their last names) were not only in attendance, but dressed up 'specially perty for yours truly. Thanks, guys.

Speaking of dress trivia, both Lisa and I showed up wearing the same La Floridiana T-shirts! (See pics.) William Moriaty should be tickled to know that.

My margaritas were supplied by Mason, Paul and Chris. Thank you guys, haha! The Wynkoops presented me with a gen-u-wine Wynkoop Fan Club T-Shirt, something I've wanted for years, but was always too broke to get. Thanks, Joel and Cathy!

Invited, but unable to attend were Terence Nuzum, Corey Castellano, Bobby Tyler, Jason Fetters, and Lonnie Dohlen. It would've been even better with their presence, but, what the hell, sh*t happens. I am grateful to those who could attend, and we all had a wonderful time.

Next year's bash may be a teensy bit more ambitious as I decided to move my bigger parties to every five birthdays rather than just the ones that end in zero. Ya know, to give thanks that I made it this far, hahaha!


United Taxi driver Tim Fasano, himself a noted area blogger on the paranormal, brought this gem to my attention a little over a week ago, though the film has been circulating at least a couple of years. It has absorbed many hours of mine and Terence's week trying to figure out what's going on.

The subject has become known as "The Gable film", alternately known as "The Michigan Dogman film". There are several versions posted on sites like YouTube (I've posted some recommended links at the end of this piece) that are enhanced, color-corrected, zoomed-in, and what have you.

Michigan DogmanThe legend has it that this 8mm home movie film, possibly Super-8, was included in a box of belongings that was sold during an estate sale in Michigan sometime around 2004. Later, the buyer, on a lark, ran the 3-minute film through his own projector. It showed various scenes of a family on something like an outing in the snowy countryside of Michigan, playing with a sled, filming the roadside forest from a moving vehicle, etc. From the car, clothes, hairstyles shown in the film, and the film itself, it looked to have originated in the early '70s. Nothing terribly out of the ordinary.

Until the last 40 seconds or so.

A dark figure, glimpsed earlier in the distance, has finally captured the attention of the cameraman. The car has stopped and we're outside. The shakey, hand-held camera is capturing a dark, four-legged animal some distance off. The animal notices this. For just a few seconds, the camera steadies and we get a look at it (sort of). Against the snow in near silhouette it looks alternately like a gorilla on all fours or a large dog or maybe even a bear, depending on how it shifts around. The animal starts moving towards the cameraman, first slowly, then more quickly. The camera shakes badly as the camera operator is apparently either trying to run away, or is using the camera itself to fend off an attack. There are flashes of what looks like an extreme close-up of a dog's muzzle and teeth, the camera continues to shake badly, finally falling to the ground, Blair Witch style, still running. That's the end.

Local ancient legends tell of a morphing dog-wolf man creature that attacks and eats humans. Paranormal proponents assert this could be that creature.

Because I'm getting this piece up so late in the publishing week, I've decided to hold off publishing mine and Terence's conclusions until next week in Part 2. Yes, we've considered everything from an outright hoax, to flawed perspective, to the poor focus making a genuine animal look horrifically creepy (it's happened before), to the distinct possiblity that the ending has been tacked onto a genuine film post-facto. It is worth noting there is a "Gable film, part 2" that purports to show a police investigation of an animal attack in that same area. It also uses home movie film and seems to show one of the earlier characters as a bloodied corpse. Terence supports its authenticity, I haven't devoted much time to it yet to reach any conclusions. I'm still working on Part 1.

Give it a look:
1. This is the short-and-sweet version, showing just the final 40 seconds of the animal and the "attack".
2. This is the original entire home movie, beginning to end, no enhancement. Runs a little over three minutes.
3. This is the best yet enhanced and stabilized version of the animal and end sequence attack. (Highly Recommended.)
4. This is one of very few videos exploring the possibility the ending was faked.


Wow. I had no idea we had such a divisive and personal subject on our hands as the last two weeks' worth of debate on the current state of popular culture! The question was whether pop culture has degraded over the past ten to twenty years, just seems that way due to a variety of circumstances, or has remain unchanged. Before proceeding, I strongly suggest reviewing the last two issues of PCR, #488 and #489, to catch up on the homepage contributions, including the Readers Comments. And even though the Message Board terrifies a lot of you, I also recommend the exchange on our subject that played out in the forum titled "Wrestling With Reality" begun by Simon Lynx. A lot of what I'm going to comment about now originated with the revelations gleaned from there.

Judging from the homepage pieces, Message Board exchanges, and personal emails, I think I need to emphasize that while everyone understood basically what the topic was, it is incredibly important to remind everyone what the topic was not :

1. Our summary judgement on the competence of the American public to know what's good for it and what's bad for it.
2. An effort to categorize as "stupid" everyone who doesn't agree with our opinions.
3. Any attempt on our part to question the valid notion that there was both cheese produced in any era and quality produced in any era.

1. An exploration of why some older, long-time fans of pop culture find less to like as they age, and why. ("The past always seems better" crossed with the perceived "dumbing-down of current media product" crossed with my personal "hot ten years" theory.)
2. An exploration of what some younger fans feel about the state of everything, and why. (General agreement with older fans (see #1). Didn't see that coming as I figured age played a more key role.)
3. An exploration of why some fans of any age might believe that, outside of obvious technological advances, nothing's really changed at all. (The least satisfying, but well-supported conclusion of a few.)

There were compelling arguments made for all of these points, and I thank everyone who contributed. I learned a lot. The most interesting revelation is that no one ever made an assertion (again, side-stepping obvious technlogical advances), that pop culture, as a whole, improved during their lifetime! The closest it came were several references that many things are as good as ever, a few isolated instances that something was great, but as a whole....no.

Mission Statement Reminder
There is always a chance during heated debates that some readers take things too personally and feel hurt, and others who continually chant the slogan, "Why can't we all just get along? Everyone's entitled to their opinion and like what they want!"

No one ever said they couldn't. Now, I can't help hurt feelings where they're not intended. And yes, god knows, I realize we tackle issues that are subjective. It's an Op-Ed website, that's what we do. Agreement on everything is not guaranteed. But if I decide no legitimate, informed opinions are worth advancing here because they're too dangerous for fragile egos, I may as well conclude my work is done, fold up PCR and take up another hobby. I live for reviewing our media culture and for passionate debate. Not name-calling or flaming. Debate. That's the whole point of my being here. Of our all being here. To play it safe and publish only nice, unchallenging remarks of a strictly promotional nature is both uninteresting and uninspiring. The amazingly talented (and frankly, brilliant) writers I have on PCR shoot from the hip about their real feelings. They are intelligent people with extensive backgrounds on their topics. If you want to know what we think about everything, you're in the right place. If it's all too scary, I'll understand if you don't come back.

For the rest of you, it's only going to get better from here!

Readers' Comments

The Readers' Comments section for this issue of PCR is now closed. To continue to interact, please use the Message Board or write a Letter to the Editor! The comments below are listed starting with the most recent. Thank you.

Crazed FanComments -- We Welcome Reader Feedback on any article(s) on this page.
Petrey [18-08-2009 04:42] 
I am now known as Petrey on the message board as well. No longer BrittonsBitch, which is a good thing considering the way the place is being run.
Dead Horse [17-08-2009 18:07] 
BTW ... beat me all day baby! I LOVE IT!
Steve [17-08-2009 16:48] 
To the Monkees: Yes, you were popular in the 60s, to schoolkids like myself, who used to rush home and play your album for 15 minutes until your show came on.

Today you're popular once again, but primarily on the Nostalgia Circuit. A bunch of us old guys re-living our youth once again.

PS. Jimi was right to give you the single-finger salute. Din'cha ya know, your band (unlike Hendrix) was a Hollywood creation, kinda like the Backstreet Boys, etc.
The Monkees [17-08-2009 16:38] 
Wait, we were popular? I thought life was perfect in the 60s and cheesy bands like us weren't popular ...
ED [17-08-2009 16:31] 
Jimi - but you also managed to give the finger to a crowd of Monkees fans after they booed you off the stage and then choked to death on your own vomit. People have to take your whole career into consideration.

8MM - I need to do that. The editing on Brainjacked was first rate.
8mm [17-08-2009 13:39] 
Ed if you liked Brainjacked check out Chris Woods' Spaventare under the Radio Active TV banner above you. its freakin creepy!
Nothing better to do [17-08-2009 13:36] 
Someone likes kicking the dead horse.
Jimi Hendrix [17-08-2009 13:02] 
Did you know that I only had ONE top 10 hit while I was alive?!?!?! Good thing people respected music in the 60s, not like today when people only listen to pop music... oh, wait, I just contradicted myself, didn't I? I guess I fit right in around here.

ED [17-08-2009 11:35] 
Lisa - regarding your Brainjacked review I agree whole heartedly. Jackson and Grant both give very good performances in the lead roles and even the weaker actors are not as bad as some of the ones you see today. The odd colorful lighting schemes and off kilter camera angles look like something right out of the old Batman series from the 60's! The Andys have a few cute touches sprinkled throughout that will give Fanboys a chuckle. Brainjacked definitely belongs in the "does not suck" category.
Chris Woods [16-08-2009 19:59] 
I work in Final Cut and edit HD stuff, but with my crazy work schedule and other projects I couldn't do it. But thanks for posting it.
Beaz [16-08-2009 19:54] 
It beats calling a team the All Blacks!

If you want some stupid team names, try these from New Zealand...

ALL BLACKS (rugby union)
ALL WHITES (soccer)
TALL BLACKS (basketball)
BLACK CAPS (cricket)
BLACK COCKS (badminton)
SMALL BLACKS ( junior rugby)

Chris M [16-08-2009 17:01]  
TO: Downunder Beaz;

A Florida Tusker is a wild boar that lives in the everglades. To tell you the truth this league is already sounding like its doomed to fail, especially with names like these.
Simon Lynx [16-08-2009 16:04] 
Ask Chris Woods
Steve Beasley [16-08-2009 15:29] 
The previous posting came from me. I was just trying to simplify matters by putting Susie's name on it.

Hope I didn't piss anyone off by posting it. She is on my friend's list and when I noticed, I just had to see if there was anyone in our Db that has interest in editing. (or even attending the event)
Susie Filmmaker [16-08-2009 09:59]  
Susie Filmmaker on Facebook:

South Jersey filmmaker needed editor immediately with Final cut pro experience who can edit HD this week! Film will be screened theatrically: feltfinancial@yahoo.com

Anyone particularly qualified?
Beasley [15-08-2009 23:22] 
Yep, Ol' Herb is still alive. As a matter of fact, according to IMDb, he was still acting as of 2004!

Who'da thunk it?
happy young man [15-08-2009 17:56] 
the angry old snobs may wanna stay away from District 9... SO good ... maybe one of the most brilliant films ever made ... but it had a good crowd and seems popular, so you won't be a rebel if you love it
Terence [15-08-2009 16:34] 
Herbert Lom? haha wow where did you dig thatup from? hes still alive. i always think of the Hammer version of Phantom of the Opera when i hear his name.
The Mutant of Atomic Beach [15-08-2009 16:31] 
Death list:

Next is either Jonathan Frid, Herbert Lom or possibly Fidel Castro.
Simon Lynx [15-08-2009 12:51] 
Lisa - liked your review of Brainjacked. I got to see a sneek peak when I was in town. I thought Rod Grant was great as the Dr. and Joel was pretty good as the News guy. I unfortunately figured out the end early on. Oh well I still enjoyed it. Good Job to the Andys. Chris you did a good edit too.
Simon Lynx [15-08-2009 12:46] 
John Hughes died too ....
Ok who's next there's gotta be a third, Unless you count Eunice Kennedy.
Chris Woods [15-08-2009 08:21] 
Lisa - I enjoyed your article on Brainjacked. Congrats to Andrew and Andy.

Happy Birthday Shelby!
Flip Wilson [15-08-2009 04:00] 
The creature in the video?

It's my ex-wife...RUN!
Bob (et al 7-11) [15-08-2009 03:45]  
Happy b"day nolan,cool site.Now i"ll really go into the archives and feed ya some goodies.
Petrey [15-08-2009 03:27] 
This is the most packed I've ever seen this 'Readers' Comments' area! Three pages?
Simon Lynx [14-08-2009 17:18] 
check this out and compare
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3 155688448421195358&ei=a_6FSo25D56yqgLY9JHDCw&q=bro wn+bear+running&hl=en
Simon Lynx [14-08-2009 17:13] 
I'm kidding, It's actually a Bear
Reality TV Ideas [14-08-2009 17:02] 
The next reality show should be a human rearing back and slapping a Silverback Gorilla for all he/she's worth. It'd make a for a hell of a fight! I'm sure you could get Johnny Knoxville to play the human.
Simon Lynx [14-08-2009 17:00] 
Guerillas scoot their back half when they run, dogs don't.
Simon Lynx [14-08-2009 16:57] 
Yes that's a Typo, I'm not a pet that's been released.
I meant it my have been a pet released.
Simon Lynx [14-08-2009 16:56] 
Terence - I cheated my girl works for the Zoo and they say it's a Silver making the charge. The end and begining may be something else but the Charge is a Guerilla. It could have escasped from there zoo, it happens all the time. Besides the fact that people have animals as pets that they shouldn't have. I may have been a pet and released. I hear of tons of search and seizure accounts.
Terence [14-08-2009 16:42] 
unless thats a back leg i see. question still is..if this is michigan whats it doing there. was the person attacked. not counting the fake teeth that is.
Terence [14-08-2009 16:39] 
thats no silver back. silver backs do not frequent michingan. if thats where that peice of footage really came from. and for another watch all versions. gorillas dont have tails. its a dog,
Simon Lynx [14-08-2009 16:35] 
Nolan your video is of a Silver Back Guerilla
Downunder Beaz [14-08-2009 16:03] 
To Chris Munger: The "Tuskers"? Where the hell does that name come from? Did someone dig up a frozen wooly mammoth in Orlando recently or what??!!
Petrey [14-08-2009 16:01] 
Yeah Nolan, just after I posted on the message board, I went and changed my email address in my profile. My website is gone and so I started to change my info. Thanks again and BTW, that man/bear/pig footage looked cool!
Middle Initial-Less Lisa [14-08-2009 15:05] 
Joel Dee Wynkoop -- What are you talking about, wrong initial? Your name is correct in my column...go back and look again if you don't believe me. Ha ha ha...

SO sorry about that! [INSERT BRAIN JACKING JOKE HERE.] Totally my bad, Joel. Thanks for letting me know.

I'm logging off my computer now, so all other corrections and revisions will have to wait until tomorrow, folks! :)
Joel D. Wynkoop [14-08-2009 14:49]  

I was just busting your chops girl, you did not have to fix that but sweet that you did. I hope you have a FANTASTIC ( as in FOUR) week.
Joel D. Wynkoop [14-08-2009 14:40]  

Nice review on BRAINJACKED. Who's Joel B. Wynkoop, is he related to me? Just busting your chops girl.

Nolan, you are welcome for the shirt man. I hope your BIRTHDAY was AWESOME!!!! We always have fun with you all. GREAT TIMES!!!!!!!
Angry Old Man [14-08-2009 14:12] 
GRRR... I'm being censored ... GRRRRR... I have a better idea. Rather than ending the argument, try making a logical argument.... GRRRRR.
Obscured in Photos Lisa [14-08-2009 13:58] 
Angry Old Man -- Thanks. Glad you were able to read it without my having to carve it on a stone tablet for you. :)

Nolan -- Thank you. I think this was my first time using the "photo with caption" option. (Nicely coded, sir.)

Your comment made me realize that I forgot to include a blurb about the photos being used by permission and given to me by the two Andys. Sorry about that. I went back and added that to my article just now.
Nolan [14-08-2009 13:14] 
Lisa, great review thanks. The pics came out great. Best of luck to both Andys, Lalino and Allan.

Paul, this is the last week for the "everything sucks?" topic. It was only a question, not an assertion or conclusion. As soon as you calm down, I hope you'll agree we all learned a lot about how fans think.
Angry Old Man [14-08-2009 13:07] 
Good review of Brainjacked Lisa ... I saw it and thought it was awesome ... well, except for the fact they played it on a DVD! GRRRR... DVDs are ruining America. In my day we popped a VHS in the VCR and that's all we needed! GRRRR... You young whipper-snappers and your fancy discs containing moving photos!
Nolan [14-08-2009 12:53] 
Mr. Petrey. Your last post was August 13th around 9:00pm. I take it this happened after that time? Yahoo is not a banned email address, so at the moment I can't figure out what's blocking you. The error message did not specify a bad email, but this started after you changed it in your profile.

Keep trying. If it continues, give me a call over the weekend and we'll try and coordinate a fix.
Petrey [14-08-2009 11:46] 
"You have specified an incorrect or inactive username, or an invalid password" is what comes up now that I changed my email address.
Nolan [14-08-2009 08:57] 
Mr. Petrey: Your account is not deactivated. What kind of error message are you getting?

To Paul: WOODSTOCK NATION! YEAH! **makes little swirling devil horn salute**
Happy Young Man [14-08-2009 07:57] 
No mention of Woodstock? What, too mainstream?
Simon Lynx [14-08-2009 07:29] 
Happy B-day Shelby. Sorry I missed you when I came to town.
AnitaGoodman [13-08-2009 22:21]  
Happy Birthday! Sorry, I am an hour and 17 mins late... I suck as a friend! Who loves ya, Baby? DAMN, you are old, and I am old by proxy!
Petrey [13-08-2009 17:40]  
Aww hell's vagina! Nolan or Terr. Could you please reactivate my account since I changed my email? It slapped me on the wrist. Thanks
Angry Old Man [13-08-2009 17:21] 
Main stream films? BA HUMBUG! I ONLY WATCH SLIDE SHOWS! Yea ... story telling sure has gone down hill since my day when we only watched slide shows.
Petrey [13-08-2009 15:41] 
Yep, the news article did say the Britton will carry 2nd run mainstream films,
William Moriaty [13-08-2009 14:46] 
Happy birthday Nolemeister!
Michael [13-08-2009 14:39] 
Happy birthday Nolan. So sorry to hear about Les Paul. I'll leave it up to you to give him his just dues....I once held one of his Gibson model guitars and I could hear it whisper to me..."you're not worthy!"
Simon Lynx [13-08-2009 13:19] 
Simon Lynx [13-08-2009 13:14] 
Ya I just read it on MSN
Nolan [13-08-2009 12:41] 
Today, I think.
Simon Lynx [13-08-2009 12:07] 
When did Les Paul die?
Nolan [13-08-2009 10:48] 
R. I. P. Les Paul at 94. To merely say he was influential in music would be an understatement. He will be sorely missed. I'll write up more when I get a chance...
Birthday Wishing2 Lisa [13-08-2009 10:31] 
Happy birthday to Nolan and Shelby!

If I knew you were comin' I'd've baked a cake...baked a cake...baked a cake...
Happy Young Man [13-08-2009 10:04] 
Ok, for the last freakin' time ... and you keep saying I am repeating myself, but I have to because you keep making arguments that can warrant me repeating myself - directors and writers were lazy BEFORE CGI was ever made. They just used other crutches prior to that. AGAIN (and again, I need to repeat myself), to blame CGI and technology is ridiculous ... it's just the latest crutch for bad filmmakers to lean on.

I will stop repeating myself when you stop making arguments that warrnt me to do so.
Nolan [13-08-2009 09:52] 
Mr. Petrey: Are they planning on showing any American movies anytime soon?
Nolan [13-08-2009 09:49] 
Paul (and Happy Young Open-Minded Man), a quote from me from PCR #488:

"I do, however, still enjoy going to the movies and find that some of the greatest product ever has been produced in the last ten to twenty years (the '90s was sparcer)."

So, I'm already on record as agreeing with you here. I'm not anti-CGI in any form, I'm only saying it has been abused and leaned on WAY too much to replace story-telling with flash. That applies to NONE of your examples. While it "enabled" LOTR, it also enabled G. I. Joe, Transformers, Terminator Salvation, and a host of other -- as you call them ---"popcorn movies". LOTR and your other examples will stand the test of time -- the others will not.

Your strongest argument is simply that nothing has changed over the decades, only the process.
Petrey [13-08-2009 09:41] 
Happy birthday to my granddaughter, as well as N*O*L*A*N!
Steve, the Britton is now infested by a bunch of Indians who couldn't make it through motel owner training. It's re-opening Friday with discounted movies, roaches and mold spores galore! mmmmmmm, tasty!
Paul Guzzo [13-08-2009 09:27] 
I know they are not all fanboy films... but my argument is that movies in general are still just as good.
Happy Young Open Minded Man [13-08-2009 09:26] 
Wedding Crashers, Babel, Borat, Cars (all CGI), New James Bond movies, Departed, The Fountain (CGI), Little Miss Sunshine, Pans Labyrinth, Rocky Baldoa, V for Vendetta (used CGI), American Gangster, Juno, Knocked Up, No County for Old Men, Super Bad, Dark Knight (CGI), The Wrestler, Slumdog Millionaire,...

Yeah, this decade has been terrible for film.
Happy Young Open Minded Man [13-08-2009 09:26] 
Gladiator (CGI), Almost Famous, Cast Away (guess what it had CGI did you think the whale was real?!?!), American Psycho, Traffic, A Beautiful Mind, Donnie Darko, Ghost World, Lord of the Rings (CGI), Monsters Inc. (all CGI), Shrek (all CGI), Vanilla Sky (had CGI and I know its a remake), Training Day, Catch Me If You Can, Gangs of New York (CGI), My Big Fat Greek Wedding, The Ring, Spider Man, Unfaithful, 28 Days Later, Big Fish, The Cooler, Kill Bill films, Lost in Translation, Matrix films (CGI), Monster, Mystic River, Pirates of the Caribbean (CGI), X Men (CGI), Eternal Sunshine, Finding Neverland, Friday Night Lights, Hell Boy (CGI), I Robot (CGI oh wait, it has Will Smith and fanboys have to hate him to remain rebels), Life Aquatic (CGI used), Million Dollar Baby, Napoleon Dynamite, Ray, Sideways, Team America, Batman Begins (CGI), Narnia films (CGI), Crash, 40 Year Old Virgin, Harry Potter films (CGI), A History of Violence, Hustle & Flow, Madagascar (all CGI), Sin City
Brandon [13-08-2009 08:56] 
I still hold that there's no legacy in this decade of pop culture or atleast minimal compared to other decades. There are good things and bad things made ,yes


What holds up from this decade is a joke compared to other eras. This is especially true with movies, especially sci-fi, horror etc...other than LOTR (which one would be another debate) what will be that Best of All-Time film from NOW.

Certainly NOT Watchmen.

I loved Battlestar ,but is 5 seasons enough or will it be a "Do you remember" catagory addition. I think Sopranos will hold up, possibly others from cable, but again, we have little on TV other than reality shows.

I don't care about the CGI argument, because good or bad, the film won't hold up if the story is crap.

Paul, I don't think you are stupid or likewise to like some of the films mentioned. I don't agree with Transformers for instance and I don't think these popcorn movies will added to the lore of Star Wars, Jaws, Psycho, or Raiders
Paul Guzzo [13-08-2009 08:46] 
Movies like Watchmen and LOTR were optioned by the studios for years but never possible to make except in cartoon form ... so there goes that argument ... I don't think you know what your argument is. You keep saying bad movies are mad in every decade, but repeat that CGI is the cause of bad movies. You guys don't have arguments ... you're angry fanboys who see your niche in life becoming mainstream and as Simon admitted, that makes you angry.

Deal with it guys... those things you hold sacred are now mainstream.
Chris Woods [13-08-2009 08:42] 
Happy Birthday Nolan!
Nolan [13-08-2009 08:34] 
Thanks for the birthday wishes, everyone.
Nolan [13-08-2009 08:33] 
1. I've already stated a hundred times that cheezy movies have been made in any decade. You can stop repeating that now. That's not the point of any of this, it's an obvious fact.

2. CGI popcorn movies are not a "genre" they are an approach to filming a genre.

3. You don't know for a fact that Watchmen or Lord of the Rings cound not have been filmed sans CGI. They were great movies due to great directors, actors, and scripts.
Simon Lynx [13-08-2009 06:16] 
Happy B-day Nolan
ED [13-08-2009 04:34] 
Happy Birthday Boss Man!
ED [13-08-2009 03:45] 
Ter - you make a valid point about the bands but forty years down the road promoters are limited by who is available. At least the acts are, more less, hippie period bands and I guess Label Contolled Pop-Fest just didn;t have the same ring to it!
Birthday Wishing Puff Chrissy [13-08-2009 02:48] 
Happy Birthday, Nolan. I hope the day is a great one for you.
Snaggletooth [13-08-2009 01:33] 
Remember, Huckleberry always speaks in jest.
Beasley [13-08-2009 01:32] 
Burn down the Britton? I've got some great memories there! I'll concede if we can all pony up and start our own cinema...perhaps in that ancient bank in Port Tampa.
Petrey [13-08-2009 00:57] 
Why don't we take this energy and put it to good use, like to burn down the Britton Theatre :) ?!?!?!
Huckleberry Hound [12-08-2009 23:45] 
Damned Terence and his nitpicking!
Terence [12-08-2009 20:31] 
Ed- enjoyed the piece of Hippie fest but the irony is that none of those bands were hippie bands. they were label controlled pop of the day. hell Strawberry Alarm Clock is more hippie than The Turtles and thats not saying alot.
Michael [12-08-2009 20:15] 
Chris Woods [12-08-2009 20:13] 
Terence - Good review on The Sadist. It's a great classic and Arch Hall Jr. is nuts in it.

Simon and Steve - Glad you liked the Hall of Fame article. Thanks! It's a great place there and the town is a good getaway.
Chris Woods [12-08-2009 20:08] 
This whole subject has gone out of control. Well, it's been out of control for awhile. Wow! It's only Wednesday and Reader's Comments is filled up.

It's funny in a way, cause it's good to see a lot of people commenting on the site, but I wish it would be like this all the time but just not so negative and crazy. Why can't we have big discussions on the articles, schlock reviews, indie film news, or other headlines from the past. Like Terence stated on the message board that most people only comment a lot when there's something negative.
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 19:18] 
I'm done chatting about it. It was fun.
Paul - no hard feelings
Terence - no hard feelings
John - no hard feelings
Everyone else - none of it was meant to offend anyone or hurt feelings
Hope everyone enjoyed the ride.

Be Like Water
Happy Young Man [12-08-2009 18:28] 
The message board for this topic is for grump old snobs only ... so I am not allowed to post there.
Beaz, again! [12-08-2009 18:24] 
ED: I dug your HippieFest piece, it brought back lots of memories.

Chris: I'd love to go to the Baseball HOF! Mickey Mantle was one o'the greats!
Steve Beasley [12-08-2009 18:22] 
So much for continuing this discussion on the CFB Message Board...
Paul Guzzo [12-08-2009 18:10] 
I think one more aspect CGI popcorn films that you guys can't seem to accept is that is has become a new genre of film. Popcorn films join comedies, drama, romance, horror, etc. as a genre of film. Do you ever leave horror films and say, "Well, that just wasn't believable! They killed that guy 10 times and he kept getting up!" No ... why, because unstoppable monsters are an accepted part of the horror genre. Do you ever leave a slapstick comedy and say, "Man, that movie didn;'t make sense. The main character was hit in the face with a shovel five times and never had one bruise."? No ... why? Because that is an accepted part of slapstick.

CGI popcorn flicks are a genre now. If you go in expecting what the genre represents - action scenes, eye candy, beautiful people and little character development - you won't be disappointed. If you don;'t want that, don;t go. I for one do not enjoy horror films AT ALL so you will never see me at one and complaining abouit the unstoppable m
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 15:37] 
Dont flatter yourself...Im poking you with a stick for my own enjoyment on a rainy afternoon and making you dance for me...

"I'm not blameing Black people for societies ills, If I wanna point the finger I should blame white people. They brought them here."

Atleast your open and honest about how you feel...Classic
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 15:21] 
I never said wearing a style was wrong or right. What I said was that Urban style has had a negative influence that we are reminded of all over the place. What exactly are you "Checking" me for? I guess I need to take the Yo Boy 101 class to understand. I'm not looking for anyone to back me. If they agree it's their choice.

And what exactly can't I back up? I'm sorry if I'm not being a nerd and getting statistics to back things up. I love the fact that you've more or less declared war on me. It's pretty funny. I think Nolan was right, Age does play a factor. Grow up and find yourself in the next 10-20 years and you'll see stuff different. I'm not blameing Black people for societies ills, If I wanna point the finger I should blame white people. They brought them here. I'm no biggot, and if you wanna play the race card on me go ahead, you have no room to talk your white.
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 15:03] 
Simon - This site is about debate...If you cant stand the heat stay out of the kitchen...

Outside of maybe Terence everyone on here agrees with your perspective...Quit whining
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 15:01] 
1. Wow Simon nice rebuttle considering you sounded mighty confident in asserting that black people were to blame for all of societies ills...I know your not qualified to back that up...Your post are proof of that...

2. I know your post...Go back and re-read that ridiculous crap you wrote or better yet copy and pasted from David Dukes website...

3. I dont care what your ethnicity is...Im making you fun of now so I know its a fact that you have...

4. Dont talk wreckless if you dont like being checked for saying things you cant back up...If you didnt care that much about the subject your opinion that blacks (well rap music) have destroyed American culture then you wouldnt be wasting the time to going back and fourth...

Dressing in in a $75 Roca Wear shirt and $150 Air Jordans is frowned upon...Right...
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 14:47] 
John - just because you pick on something doesn't make you a biggot.
I think you are feeling single out and hate it right now. That prooves my point. If you made fun of things I like I wouldn't care. You act like your trying to spread the word or something. Stop Drinking the Cool-aide
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 14:42] 
Paul - I agree with you that it's not the CGI that makes it bad. The problem is that to many films try and wow you with the CGI so you won't see the lack of story.
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 14:41] 
John - 1st I'm not looking for "street cred" I don't care what people think about me. I am one of the most confident people you will ever meet. So it's not a insecure thing. I never said I was qualified to back anything, I'm just letting you know that your scare tactics are a waste of time.

2nd - you don't know me, you have no grounds to call me a biggot.
3rd you don't even know what my ethnicity is, so you don't know if I've been made fun of.
4th - reguardless of my point or opinion on anything, you're doing exactly what I said you would do. Trying to inform of stuff I don't care about is a waste of your time. I don't defend anything because I don't care what people say about my likes and dislikes. You are the one who got defensive.

Terence - I'm not saying that the enfluence of any era or style is bad. What I'm saying is that the Urban style in general has done long term damage. It's just not looked upon well, when you try for a job or anything proffessional
Paul Guzzo [12-08-2009 14:30] 
I don't love the Matrix for their fight scenes ... I'm drawn to them for the storyline. I think the original was brilliantly written ... the next two I am still high on, but the first one in my mind was a classic - a way to show the masses what the world looks like to young minds once they .... ready for this... GASP ... ingest mind altering drugs.
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 14:30] 
http://www.time.com/time/magaz ine/article/0,9171,974473,00.html

This is old...The numbers fluctuate but Im sure they are still similar to a degree...Couldnt find anything recent...

Terence [12-08-2009 14:13] 
i swear John im not trying to sarcastic or argumentative here but could you tell me where you read or saw that more white people are on welfare? its actually interesting to me if thats true. is there like a survey i can find showing what races and economic positions are on welfare? and if so where can i find it?
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 14:12] 
"For every video game movie made there is Lord of the Rings coming to life, Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe, Matrix, Spiderman, Dark Knight, Watchmen, Iron Man (I hate, but you love) ... movies with great writing and directing that would not have been possible outside the cartoon world prior to CGI"

Maybe in terms of being gigantic spectacles...The Matrix movies didnt do anything Shaw Brothers movies didnt do better decades earlier...
Paul Guzzo [12-08-2009 14:03] 
BTW ... don't tell me the ORIGINAL Batman movie with Adam West was good...

AND, I still stand by by argument that the new Star Wars trilogy was SUPERIOR in terms of story. I'd go into more detail, but no one here is open minded enough to give my argyument a chance anyway .... but if the day comes that people can read with an open mind and not just keep typing JAR JAR for a counter-argument, I will share.
Happy Young Man Paul Guzzo [12-08-2009 14:01] 
Nolan, you don't want to be classified as an angry old man , yet you continue to make arguments that pigeon-hole you as such ... why does the fact that there are bad movies with great CGI even qualify as an argument against the fact that CGI has enabled stories to be told that weren;t able to be told in the past? Are you trying to tell me that prior to the advent of CGI a terrible movie was never made?! EVER?!?! Prior to CGI every single movie was Citizen Kane?!?! REALLY????

The movies with CGI that suck don't suck because of the CGI ... they suck because the director, writer, producer, etc. made a crappy movie ... the same reason non-CGI movies can also suck.

For every video game movie made there is Lord of the Rings coming to life, Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe, Matrix, Spiderman, Dark Knight, Watchmen, Iron Man (I hate, but you love) ... movies with great writing and directing that would not have been possible outside the cartoon world prior to CGI.
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 14:00] 
Im not saying I am anymore qualified about anything...Just saying anytime someone picks on rap they justify their bigotry by saying..."Well I have black friends...or...I live around black people"...As if that makes you a credible authority on the subject...

Far as spoon fed images are concerned why does that have to be exclusive to black people (just like welfare since more whites are on welfare)?..The whole point of the last few weeks of debate is that the majority of people are sheep sucking at the tit of mass media...If someone is on welfare that is their problem...If someone is a killer that is their issue...Are people in this country completely excluded from personal responsibility?

My point about control over a communities images is that people like Simon that think within the four walls of their skulls see fictitious images and for some reason equate that to reality...Id argue that is do to insecurity...
Terence [12-08-2009 13:46] 
im not speaking for myself but if Simon is saying he grew up with black people in the rough parts of NY how is he not valid to speak about it and you are John? you have more of an understanding why? seems you and simon are equal on it.
Terence [12-08-2009 13:45] 
believe it or not most black people you talk to will talk down about the blacks in their communitie that are into drugs or the chicks with 5 kids on welfare. they think it makes their race look bad. its like with southerners. they dont like rednecks either yet thats how the media portrays them. then again their are people who just are dumb rednecks. but that doesnt speak for everyone. so i agree with John there.

on the otherhand just because you are black and spoon fed that image in media doesnt mean that you have to follow it. a black girl i work with at both jobs says every other day how she hates how she gets lumped in with all the black people who to her act like "idiots". she doesnt give in to that and is going to school and lives in a poor area. so you dont have to follow it.
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 13:40] 
Yes Simon...Im sure Reggie, Jermaine, Marquell and all of your many black friends know you are not a bigot (sometimes if you ask nicely they will even let you feel their hair...Its fuzzy isnt it?)...Your attempts at proving you have some type of street cred do not take away from the fact you know next to nothing about rap music and have a very sheltered view point on popular culture in general...Its not fair to blame the inner city for mass produced images of their communuties that they themselves have no control over...
Terence [12-08-2009 13:37] 
where do the Beastie Boys fit into all this? Dr. Dre himself says rap owes half its innovations in beats to these three jewish white guys. color has nothing to with it. music has no color.
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 13:34] 
If your white you cant listen to rap because you dont belong?

There are numerous white people responsible for the growth of rap music from its inception...Rick Rubin produced the blackest rap album of all time...

Your a minority yourself...It wasnt to long ago that people were saying your people dont belong...

Terence [12-08-2009 13:33] 
"Infact the style now days if your a rap fan is to wear tight jeans and shirts."

which was stolen from indie rockers and punkers...sigh. tell me this isnt true that rappers are taking this? its bad enough Lil Wayne is trying to make a rock album and I do mean trying.

Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 13:30] 
I don't have a beef with the Black culture, I have alot of Black friends BTW. And ya I know there are rednecks who can't speak english either.
As far as violence, ya it's been here since the beginning of time, But there's the "EGO" thing. Back in history the violence was used as an excuse to take over and have a dominant society. The violence of today Yes from Rap music and Drugs is about power as well, the music boosts the "EGO" and makes people think they are unstoppable and have to proove it. What a joke that is. but it kills it's own people to try and get "street credit" like that really means anything in a productive society. And before you go the "what do I know about route" lets take a walk down memory lane. I used to live in the Sh*t hole called NY, I lost muliple friends to power issues on the street. I was involved in a drive-by shooting and watch a friend get shot and killed. Oh and he was the wrong guy.
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 13:28] 
Lack of intelligence -- I guess...But when headbangers and grunge rockers where whining and crying in the mainstream rappers were political, religious and militant capitalist...

Underwear hanging out of a kids pants have more to do with that individuals personal taste then rap culture in general...Nobody I know of off the top of my head promotes that fashion statement...Infact the style now days if your a rap fan is to wear tight jeans and shirts...Once again...It sounds like your beef is with black people and not with rap music...

Terence [12-08-2009 13:27] 
either way. style has nothing to do with anything. not sure why it was brought up? if white people emulate rappers then maybe its because they grew up in urban enviroments. i dont go around asking them so how would you know? as for wiggers...well we all know one of those posers when we see one.
Terence [12-08-2009 13:26] 
i think the whole thing with white people emulating urban lifestyle is nothing new though Simon. what do you think Elvis was doing? he wanted to be black like all the R N B groups he followed. the greaser look itself is an extension of the black pompadour look used by Muddy Waters and alot of the bluesmen and black rock n rollers like Little Richard. I will admit that the greasers took the idea and made it their own by adding leather jackets jeans and biker boots though.
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 13:19] 
Chris- I liked your article on the Hall of Fame, I haven't been there in years. My Dad took me I think when I was 14. We actually got to see a Old Timers game too.
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 13:18] 
Embrace it?..I live it...

What you are seeing and hearing might be rap flavored but it is not rap...Lemon powder stirred in water doesnt make your drink lemonade...Slaughterhouse, The Lox, Wu...Thats rap...Please suggest a radio station outside of New York where I can hear them played or a TV station that airs their videos...

Violence -- Im no scholar but Im pretty sure violence existed long before rap music...Maybe even since the beginning of time...If your referring to inner city violence that probably has more to do with the profitability of the drug trade and less to do with Ice Cube lyrics...

Broken English -- Maybe you missed the last eight years of an elitist white male southern transplant from the northeast who spoke horribly broken english(he was a country music fan btw)...Its kinda crazy that the black guy in office now who admits to listening to rap music speaks perfect english...If you're referring to ebonics then your beef has more to do with black culture in gen
Terence [12-08-2009 13:17] 
im not a huge fan of Rap but Hip Hop isnt rap anymore than pop is rock. its a dumbed own version of Rap. meant to be quick and easy and sell stuff. if you heard albums like Cannibal Ox's The Cold Vein, Dalek's Filthy Tongues of Griots, or even Q-Tip's new one you wouldnt think so negatively on the genre. its back to the old thing...the good stuff isnt popular. because its difficult and not quick and easy.
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 13:10] 
T- I agree with you about the CGI-Story thing. Shows like Star Trek and such stand the test of time and have "staying power"

Rap-Hip-Hop what ever you wanna call it, it's the same thing. Changing the name doesn't change what it is. I don't know if it's me or what, but only people who listen to Rap as there main music or live the life style call it Hip Hop. Look in the mirror YO! You don't belong, you're not Black and pull up your pants.
Terence [12-08-2009 12:52] 
somehow people continue to confuse CGI and technological advances with good storytelling. Dr, Who had the cheapest FX imaginable and yet steller story telling most of the time. same with the original Trek. or was it that they knew they had bad FX so they had to compinsate with good stories to keep afloat and if they had good FX they would have slacked on the writing?
Terence [12-08-2009 12:50] 
I believe John is saying that the mindless dumbed down drek that goes for rap nowadays is actually hip hop and not rap. John I know for a fact listens to good rap. Nothing nowadays sounds like Tribe Called Quest or Public Enemy. two groups that were experimental and mainstream at the same time.
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 12:46] 
It's interesting that out of all the things that have been said, that you come to RAP's defense. Tell me if I'm wrong and I'll appologize - You embrace the lifestyle, and feel you have to defend it. Did I strike a nerve?
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 12:44] 
Paul -And main culture never changes until underground movements become mainstream ... so to complain about mainstream culture yet not wanting it to change doesn't make sense.

I never said I didn't want it to change. Change and growth have to happen. What I meant was that from the beginning of this entire discussion is that I didn't feel anything new was as good or influential as past uprises. To me there is no boom of talent coming through like the 60's through the 90's.

John - as far as Rap goes are you blind. Or should I say Deaf? There is Rap everywhere. If MTV isn't playing some stupid reality show they are playing Rap videos. Every commercial has some stupid catchy Rap song or Rap vibed jingle to sell their crap. The Urban lifestyle has ruined our society. Broken English, violence, lack of intelligence, I certainly don't wanna see anybodies underwear hanging out of there pants. I was a fan of some Rap back in the day when it wasn't all about HATE like it is now.
Nolan [12-08-2009 12:24] 
Paul: ".......can now be shared with the masses due to the advances on film technology. "

I've stated repeatedly that technological innovations are acknowledged, are a given. But hi-tech is not art or writing or acting. CGI helped Watchmen get made, sure, but made plenty of other stuff look like two-hour long video games (everything from The Phantom Menace to G. I. Joe). Is this the progress you're talking about?
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 11:55] 
"Why can't we all just get along? Everyone's entitiled to their opinion and like what they want!"

Nole - If anyone says the following and gets their panties twisted over content or debate then tell them to move to Russia...
J.MILLER [12-08-2009 11:52] 
Urban rap style of living fades away...Please explain this further...

That comment is confusing considering "rap" is rarely heard these days on mainstream radio or on cable television...

Paul Guzzo [12-08-2009 11:50] 
Art is subjective ... there is no one way it should be perceived. Just because it means one thing to you doesn't mean it should that to everyone.

And main culture never changes until underground movements become mainstream ... so to complain about mainstream culture yet not wanting it to change doesn't make sense.
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 11:03] 
Paul - I agree with you. The hard part is, is that when your a fanboy (my opinion) and the things you hold sacred or meaningful, because there not "mainstream" are tarnished once they become mainstream. You almost feel betrayed, or that they sold out. Hard to explain, not sure why it feels that way but that's how it is. You don't wanna share it with everyone only people similar to you because they have that same respect or vibe you have. Plus the fact that once something becomes mainstream the media and everyone else kills it by over exposing it or not representing it the way it should be. And unfortunately you end up hating it even more.

Agin it's my opinion, I don't know it everyone else feels that way. I'm just not afraid to say it.
Simon Lynx [12-08-2009 10:54] 
It seems that Technology has improved, not the culture. Technology has made things faster and easier for people but in the end has actually alienated everyone. It seems that children of today only learn what they see on tv or through Technology. Not much sense of History. Where are the days of playing catch with a buddy. (bonding) Or doing something more consturctive and meaningful. Oh like Reading... They aren't out in the open as much anymore. Oh I know what it is,.... If you like to read you must be a geek and your not cool. Now it's Texting, Email, "Message Boards" lol.... Yes it is nice to have the world at your finger tips (internet) but nothing beats hands on or in person. I'm not a hater and not a racist ( I'm am a minority) but if and when the day comes that Urban (RAP) style of living fades away, then things may change. No one wants to learn something knew or different, they only want what is excepted as cool. This of course is the (majority) not the fanboy....
Paul Guzzo [12-08-2009 10:37] 
I meant "Stories once NOT known by the masses."
Paul Guzzo [12-08-2009 10:36] 
I second that ... stories once known by the masses - such as Watchmen - can now be shared with the masses due to the advances on film technology. That movie could never have been made in years past, and now, following the movie release, the comic's sales have soared.
Nolan [12-08-2009 10:29] 
Really? In what way?
Puff Chrissy 2: Puff Chrissier [12-08-2009 10:09] 
I would easily argue that pop culture has improved exponentially with the times.
Petrey [12-08-2009 10:01] 
Uh...first, mmkay
[31-12-1969 16:00] 
End of Comments    

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